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New version of ROCK RAIDERS - update


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#181
antillies

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Rokreder, you don't have to apologize; Extreme is the last person you could possibly offend :P

 

Your concern was commendable and your intentions in the right place.  Whether due to culture or simply personality you misunderstood.  It's OK.  Everyone does that from time to time.  Just learn from it and continue contributing to this fantastic community.  :)


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#182
aidenpons

Here's my point of view on this keruffle:

Have you ever considered that I just might not like you very much?

This hurt. That's all I can say.

I'm laughing at your ridiculous and over-the-top response to a conversation you're not involved in, with two people who clearly don't care. aidenpons and I both aren't taking this personally. If people take comments they read on the internet from random strangers they'll likely never meet personally, they should get right off the internet.

If people take comments they read on the internet from random strangers they'll likely never meet personally, they should get right off the internet.

I understand that. It's just that, to me, RRU is a nice place. When I first found this forum one of the first things I thought was 'wow, everyone's so nice to each other.' So I had let down my mental shields.

Enter you. I know that I was foolish to 'let my shields down,' but this hit me out of the blue. You misunderstood me, and I misunderstood you, but we still live and so... let's continue with what this topic was made for.

 

LITTLE PEDESTAL? TRAIN AS HYGIENIST? Yes, LegoRR has funny elements, but those are WAY over the top and add a level of complexity that's WAY not needed in this game.

Ok, ok, I see what you mean. It's just that I thought it might be nice to be able for your raiders to get sandwiches from somewhere that isn't a building which you have to power, place barriers down, etc.

 

Is hunger even still going to be in the game?

 

Monsters were only on a handful of levels. They took seconds to deal with and aside from the final level, they were barely threats. The monsters are a temporary distraction to take your attention away from the real objective. This isn't Monster Simulator 1999.

You think that monsters are practically something to amuse you, and I can see where you're coming from (I hope I'm not misunderstanding you here). But I think that monsters could be more of a challenge; something you've got to watch out for. I'd like to see what some other people think, seeing as we are on practically opposite sides of the debating table. Should monsters be solely for entertainment value, or should they actually be a threat?

Or could you perhaps have 'a bit of both' and have some monsters designed SOLELY to run into fences and others as a challenge?

 

Debug Keys are not legitimate gameplay features.

[semi-derailing]

Do you think dams and earthquakes are good gameplay features and should be in the game?

[/semi-derailing]

 

I dunno how you play the game, but I never had this happen to me...

[more_derailing]

With Debug Keys, a new Emrg.map file, and EmergeTimeOut = 0. :P

[/more_derailing]

Again, this comes back to the monsters idea. Should they be a threat or an entertainment item?

 

Except that you have limited resources to play with on all levels. Why waste them for a glitch?

I've been thinking about Power Surges and I see what you mean. However, a) they could be made into a feature, and b) you have to 'waste' resources on building air purification thingies, so why not have another thing to keep yourself occupied?

 

Grey ones?

Different monster types. Take LRR. Then tell it that Ice Monsters smash fences, but no other monsters can. Also, tell it to have different types on monsters on each level.

That's what I'm trying to say, and it again boomerangs back to the 'Monsters' idea.

 

And so now you've nerf'd Slug Holes. Well done.

Point made. However (I'm using that word a lot :P), if certain monsters can smash walls (say that Lava Monsters can) then you need to make sure that you keep and eye on your walls so that the slugs aren't released. Slugs should be able to periodically damage walls too.

[yet_more_derailing]

This could semi-be like Zoo Tycoon *I hear a chorus of groans and another banhammer narrowly misses me :P*, where the fences slowly get damaged over time and some things wreck them.

[/yet_more_derailing]

 

And then the RR's can't dig the wall, so you can get the resources and you'll run out of power.

Vehicles and raiders can walk through fences!

If you fence up a wall then you can still drill it with anything you like.

 

*Uniforms.

That is a brilliant idea. Perhaps there is the RR uniform for everything that isn't specialised, and certain specialised units have different uniforms.

 

*Saving. I hate only being able to save after clearing a level.

Fush, are you my nice twin or something? :P I agree with everything he says, apart from the quicksave idea. Saving needs to be possible.

Was there any reason for not putting saving in anyway?

 

*Keeping our bases. I think the game should encourage you to build the most awesome base possible, and I think this is one of the game's most fun features. However, I usually go through levels with the minimum base possible, as at the end it all gets teleported up anyway. If the base could be kept, and reused later then it would encourage you to put more effort into building it up.

The problem is that if you build a MASSIVE base on the first level then everything else will be easy because of that huge base. It's a good idea, but it might make gameplay too easy...

Perhaps:

For 100 ore you could buy another level for the air purifier, if you see what I mean. For 100 ore it becomes accessible. This upgrade might, say, increase its purifying rate, or decrease its cost. This upgrade would be accessible for every level from the moment you buy it.

That's an idea and feel free to savage it into tiny microparticles which are no longer visible to the naked eye (Tracker excluded :P).

 

And some new ideas:

Reinforcing: It needs to take a lot of time and perhaps cost ore. Also, it would have to be taken down again (perhaps refunding the ore) before the wall can be drilled. I think this because taking out landslides AND monster emerges in one go without any problem other than getting to the wall and fetching a hammer makes it too easy. Also, they could degrade with time.

 

Tools: Tools should be able to be returned to the tool store. Also, a diversification in the original weapons would be nice. (Say that a LaZor is far more effective at bashing slugs than a normal lazer, but it is hopeless at trashing any monsters)

Also, you should be able to tell raiders which monster(s) to attack. Someone also mentioned that raiders should go for the closest monster first, and then go to the last. That's a nice idea.

 

Back to the monsters - what does everyone else think?



#183
McJobless

This hurt. That's all I can say.

Do you take everything said on the internet personally and legitimately?
 

I understand that. It's just that, to me, RRU is a nice place. When I first found this forum one of the first things I thought was 'wow, everyone's so nice to each other.' So I had let down my mental shields.
Enter you. I know that I was foolish to 'let my shields down,' but this hit me out of the blue. You misunderstood me, and I misunderstood you, but we still live and so... let's continue with what this topic was made for.

s*** got real. I'm nice...to people who don't inherently piss me off.
 

Ok, ok, I see what you mean. It's just that I thought it might be nice to be able for your raiders to get sandwiches from somewhere that isn't a building which you have to power, place barriers down, etc.
 
Is hunger even still going to be in the game?

Ehh, you don't want to juggle too many elements, otherwise you've got too much to worry about when Action Stations gets called. KISS; Keep It Simple Stupid.

No idea, I'm not the CD.

You think that monsters are practically something to amuse you, and I can see where you're coming from (I hope I'm not misunderstanding you here). But I think that monsters could be more of a challenge; something you've got to watch out for. I'd like to see what some other people think, seeing as we are on practically opposite sides of the debating table. Should monsters be solely for entertainment value, or should they actually be a threat?
Or could you perhaps have 'a bit of both' and have some monsters designed SOLELY to run into fences and others as a challenge?

Monsters should be a threat...to those who don't prepare. Those who build fences get the advantage, but it sucks away resources and so they have to micro-manage that. If the game was a little less lenient with the amount of resources avaliable, you'd notice that fences are a brilliant strategical tool with a heavy downside on how much power they drain, which costs you when you need air available from the Support Station.
 

Do you think dams and earthquakes are good gameplay features and should be in the game?

You can't defend against earthquakes, so no to them. Dams possibly, but you'd have to introduce those walls, and I can seem them making so many problems that ultimately it's not worth it.

I've been thinking about Power Surges and I see what you mean. However, a) they could be made into a feature, and b) you have to 'waste' resources on building air purification thingies, so why not have another thing to keep yourself occupied?

Because I think Power Surges could be an entirely different element which work in an entirely different way with different effects and an actually interesting strategy required to fix them.
 

Different monster types. Take LRR. Then tell it that Ice Monsters smash fences, but no other monsters can. Also, tell it to have different types on monsters on each level.
That's what I'm trying to say, and it again boomerangs back to the 'Monsters' idea.

Different monsters is right out, unless you want to have multiple biomes on levels. There needs to be constraints on the gameplay to sustain believability so the player keeps interest. 

Different monster types makes monsters too predictable, thus why it was easy to kill them since you knew exactly which weapon they were weak too. They should share traits, and simply have stat changes so a single monster type is better than another monster type at doing a specific task.
 

Point made. However (I'm using that word a lot :P), if certain monsters can smash walls (say that Lava Monsters can) then you need to make sure that you keep and eye on your walls so that the slugs aren't released. Slugs should be able to periodically damage walls too.

Monsters =/= working together. They act like animals, and they act separately and do separate things. There's just no AI coding for how they interact with each other. Therefore, Monster isn't likely going to just smash the walls down around a slimy slug hole, unless there was a deposit of crystals behind it.

How are the slugs going to damage them? Unless they force fields which they can drain the energy out of, slugs have no means of attack.
 

Vehicles and raiders can walk through fences!
If you fence up a wall then you can still drill it with anything you like.

What?
 

Was there any reason for not putting saving in anyway?

Because it's hard to code, dials up the file-size of saves (since they'd likely have to save every unit and the status of all the blocks in each type of map to memory) and breaks gameplay easy?
 

The problem is that if you build a MASSIVE base on the first level then everything else will be easy because of that huge base. It's a good idea, but it might make gameplay too easy...
Perhaps:
For 100 ore you could buy another level for the air purifier, if you see what I mean. For 100 ore it becomes accessible. This upgrade might, say, increase its purifying rate, or decrease its cost. This upgrade would be accessible for every level from the moment you buy it.

His idea was okay, granted there was strict restrictions (in the planning stages) on how resources are planned out and what units are available, and justification on how the base moves. Your idea made no sense whatever.

You're going to ram up the cost of an upgrade to (guessing) the average ore available in a single level for a minor upgrade? How does this even connect with his idea of keeping your base between levels? There's no connection.

Reinforcing: It needs to take a lot of time and perhaps cost ore. Also, it would have to be taken down again (perhaps refunding the ore) before the wall can be drilled. I think this because taking out landslides AND monster emerges in one go without any problem other than getting to the wall and fetching a hammer makes it too easy. Also, they could degrade with time.

The point of reinforcing is that it needs to be quick to combat landslides immediately, since those pesky raiders just love walking into them as much as possible. Ore cost is maybe okay, but taking down the reinforcement not so; you need to make a tactical choice on if it's a good idea to reinforce the wall or not, making it safe from landslides and monsters, but then requiring explosive experts to detonate the wall if you want to clear it. Degradation doesn't feel right, since the reinforcement should never come undone, otherwise people will just frequently switch between the two, only costing them a few ore, and gaining all the benefits.
 

Tools: Tools should be able to be returned to the tool store. Also, a diversification in the original weapons would be nice. (Say that a LaZor is far more effective at bashing slugs than a normal lazer, but it is hopeless at trashing any monsters)
Also, you should be able to tell raiders which monster(s) to attack. Someone also mentioned that raiders should go for the closest monster first, and then go to the last. That's a nice idea.

No to tool return. Replacing is a fine idea. There's no need to empty a raider's inventory slots, at all. It's no like they're picking up health packs on the battlefield. If you need a new tool, swap it out for an old one.

Not sure what you mean on diversification. The three laser weapons ingame use the power triangle for different types of monsters, and don't affect any other creatures. You then have a tool for slimy slugs. Diverse enough for me.

I think that's a simple AI oversight, but yes, it needs to be corrected. As far as choosing targets, ditch that, and simply allow us to use Raiders like the laser drill tower thing and manually shoot everything.

#184
Fushigisaur

Because it's hard to code, dials up the file-size of saves (since they'd likely have to save every unit and the status of all the blocks in each type of map to memory) and breaks gameplay easy?


It would if you could do a permanent save at any point and reload it later, yes. I'm thinking closer to a "quicksave" option that many games use: you can save you exact position within a level, but as soon as you do so the game quits automatically, and when you resume the quicksave later it gets deleted automatically. This way you can quit at any time without losing data, but it doesn't allow you to constantly reset your mistakes.

#185
JimbobJeffers

Have fun reading through the last couple of pages, Stewart, if you dare. :P

 

By the way, skimming through... It seems a few comments have been made that assume this game is just a remake of LRR. Have I misinterpreted StewartG's plans for this game or something? Because I thought this was just a new game with similar aesthetics and gameplay ideas, not mechanics.



#186
TheDoctor

By the way, skimming through... It seems a few comments have been made that assume this game is just a remake of LRR. Have I misinterpreted StewartG's plans for this game or something? Because I thought this was just a new game with similar aesthetics and gameplay ideas, not mechanics.

Yeah, while these two have been trying to make the most irritating game in the history of RTSs, someone forgot that this is a different game. If the minecraft influence is taken into account, the game would not work with the same kind of mechanics. Instead of "Build up base, eat all the walls, finish the objective" kind of gameplay, we might get something like having and managing multiple bases. Really we have no idea what Stewie is planning so the nitpicking arguments is more amusing than useful at this point.
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#187
Fushigisaur

I've been pretty much ignoring the back-and-forth between aidenpons and McJiblets, I don't think all of aiden's ideas are stupid but they're not all good either, and that's all I have to say.

Anyway, like the doctor said, we don't know what kind of game this will be yet. We are not really assuming it will be like the first game, rather, the only thing we can do at this point is say what needs to be improved about the first game so the new can hopefully be better.
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#188
Icerockman

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I've been pretty much ignoring the back-and-forth between aidenpons and McJiblets, I don't think all of aiden's ideas are stupid but they're not all good either, and that's all I have to say.

Anyway, like the doctor said, we don't know what kind of game this will be yet. We are not really assuming it will be like the first game, rather, the only thing we can do at this point is say what needs to be improved about the first game so the new can hopefully be better.

Thank you for stating this :)

On a side note, i'd be interested to hear someone's opinion of my earlier post :) I often hover around the forums, Usually not actually posting just reading, but this one got me thinking :) I wrote a heck of a lot more than i ever would usually :) 



#189
LegoMathijs

I'm curious about the progress of development of the RR game :-)  

 

Maybe Stewart can show us a first impression of (a part of) the game?  Maybe it would be easier to share our idea's and the developers' idea's if we can see a litte bit of the game:)  if it's possible.

 

 

 

The last few month's I've posted several Rock Raiders mocs at the FB page of the Block Raiders II ad also sent some of these to Stewart.



#190
LegoMathijs

I'm asked to share another photo's of my MOC and share it with Rock raiders II the Block Raiders, I've taken a third photo shoot of this MOC.

 

sideway detail photo

13229210693_7b938f59ff_o.jpg

 

12596977995_fc1820ea69_o.jpg

 

Detailed photo about the construction

12597084233_8206b51062_o.jpg

 

 

 

 

At the Facebook page of Rock raiders II the Block Raiders I've asked what the progress is of development.

 

I've got the following answer: 

 

Hi Mathijs, Our lead programmer had to take another job, and the 3D modeller also had another project, I am getting it back on track now.

 

I'm curious about the progress:)



#191
Max235

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Suggestions/Ideas

 

- Larger maps.  Possibly even creation of player-made maps for trading between players, since the concept of a RCT/Sims object download system was mentioned by Stewie.

 

- Multiple biomes with realistic transitions.  Probably be more oriented for the largest maps.  Like a mostly snowy/ice map with an active volcano sitting in the center.  Also, pockets of smaller biomes such as organic/fungal locations within rock/sand/whatever regions and found by drilling into smaller caverns.

 

- A MENU TO SELECT UNITS.  God, I hated running around trying to select super fast moving trucks and ultra fast Baz Raiders.

 

- Ability to go up and down in the same "level".  Remember how you saw the ceiling in LRR?  I wished I could have sent Raiders up above the ceiling into new areas.  Probably would need a specialized "Elevator" structure to attain, with a level 2 version that can transport multiple raiders or a small vehicle.  Bigger vehicles either need to find a way around or a new base would be needed to be built up/down there.

 

- Truly mobile HQ, similar to that funny Power Miner thing or the Mammoth from Halo.  Used as a home away from home or for use in known hostile locations (like a mission in a massive monster nest).  An upgrade could make it able to be permanently transformed into a starter base, trading the mobility for greater refining powers or something of the like.  Note this is an alternative to the usual send the raiders down start.

 

- Better advantages for Aerial vehicles.  The ability to access "cliff" locations in caverns or go up/down vertical holes (like where you'd put an Elevator) would be nice.  It just felt weird in LRR to have two "official" aerial vehicles and one "unofficial" (eg modded in) aerial vehicle and all three hovered inches above the ground (TT was so big the model clipped into every wall).  And for the record, the Tunnel Scout was pretty much a wheeled vehicle.

 

- Submarines.  Not every "water" pool is inches deep, and places like Water Lot of Fun mentioned, if I remember correctly, that the "river" was bigger than the small creek featured in the level.  As such, it would be reasonable to believe minerals could be underwater, and to tap such seams, you'd need something that goes underwater.

 

- More realistic tool carrying.  It did feel a bit unrealistic to carry a shovel, a drill, several lasers, and a spanner in what was, for a lack of a better term, their pockets.  It might be a bit more realistic to have a tool in the hand and a tool on the back (lasers being more "rifle" sized rather than pistols).  This also provides a reason to include a Tool Store-like vehicle (I always wondered how that structure originally got to the planet).

 

- Better priority menu.  I personally didn't like the "do this first, then do this" design and would have rather set my ops up to have a certain percentage of raiders doing one thing, and another percentage doing another.



#192
LegoMathijs

Sounds good:) I've also thought about  submarines for expanding the Rock Raiders machinery. But maybe it's lso a good idea to ad diving suits for the Rock Raiders.

 

The mobile HQ/control centre is also a nice idea:)

 

I've also made a extra aerial vehicle (pictures above)  

 

But maybe adding a aerial driller?



#193
LegoMathijs

Maybe adding a snow area in the game with snow vehicles and equipment for mining in the snow area:)



#194
McJobless

Maybe adding a snow area in the game with snow vehicles and equipment for mining in the snow area:)

You keep DOUBLE posting and bumping with bad ideas. Stop it. Either edit your old post or keep quiet.
 

- Larger maps.  Possibly even creation of player-made maps for trading between players, since the concept of a RCT/Sims object download system was mentioned by Stewie.

Depends on how large you want to make these maps (hopefully not incredible to the point of stupidity). Map downloader *could* be cool...ish...

- Multiple biomes with realistic transitions.  Probably be more oriented for the largest maps.  Like a mostly snowy/ice map with an active volcano sitting in the center.  Also, pockets of smaller biomes such as organic/fungal locations within rock/sand/whatever regions and found by drilling into smaller caverns.

Ehh. You're changing the entire game type, then. LegoRR had the advantage where each biome had its own tactics and rules, and you had to try your best to over the course of the game adapt to each one individually. If they're all shoved together, you lose that.

Also, an active volcano would be a stupid thing to do because there's so many ways it can fail. 

- A MENU TO SELECT UNITS.  God, I hated running around trying to select super fast moving trucks and ultra fast Baz Raiders.

Cool.
 

- Ability to go up and down in the same "level".  Remember how you saw the ceiling in LRR?  I wished I could have sent Raiders up above the ceiling into new areas.  Probably would need a specialized "Elevator" structure to attain, with a level 2 version that can transport multiple raiders or a small vehicle.  Bigger vehicles either need to find a way around or a new base would be needed to be built up/down there.

I think you've been huffing too much Sims powder, mate. That adds levels of complexity FAR greater than the game requires.
 

- Truly mobile HQ, similar to that funny Power Miner thing or the Mammoth from Halo.  Used as a home away from home or for use in known hostile locations (like a mission in a massive monster nest).  An upgrade could make it able to be permanently transformed into a starter base, trading the mobility for greater refining powers or something of the like.  Note this is an alternative to the usual send the raiders down start.

I don't like the last two sentences, but okay.
 

- Better advantages for Aerial vehicles.  The ability to access "cliff" locations in caverns or go up/down vertical holes (like where you'd put an Elevator) would be nice.  It just felt weird in LRR to have two "official" aerial vehicles and one "unofficial" (eg modded in) aerial vehicle and all three hovered inches above the ground (TT was so big the model clipped into every wall).  And for the record, the Tunnel Scout was pretty much a wheeled vehicle.

That's because the game wasn't necessarily designed to be a flying game. Air units have their purpose, and it's not being the central unit. The f**** is a cliff location? And no, don't bring up the elevator again.
 

- Submarines.  Not every "water" pool is inches deep, and places like Water Lot of Fun mentioned, if I remember correctly, that the "river" was bigger than the small creek featured in the level.  As such, it would be reasonable to believe minerals could be underwater, and to tap such seams, you'd need something that goes underwater.

Fine, but I believe you are still trying to add far too many big concepts to this game.

- More realistic tool carrying.  It did feel a bit unrealistic to carry a shovel, a drill, several lasers, and a spanner in what was, for a lack of a better term, their pockets.  It might be a bit more realistic to have a tool in the hand and a tool on the back (lasers being more "rifle" sized rather than pistols).  This also provides a reason to include a Tool Store-like vehicle (I always wondered how that structure originally got to the planet).

I'm sorry, but what the actual f**** is this? This is probably your worst idea. Since when did a LEGO game feature realism?! Quick Update: NEVER.

This is a bad, bad idea.
 

- Better priority menu.  I personally didn't like the "do this first, then do this" design and would have rather set my ops up to have a certain percentage of raiders doing one thing, and another percentage doing another.

I disagree with this as well. The idea of priorities is you're assigning the priority of autonomous decisions when you're micro-managing another thing off in the distance and they run out of work. It's not meant to be a complex planner of all actions.
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